Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

Jonners59 · 2021-02-06 11:42:31

So I am having some issues with my 3D resin printer.

Just finished setting it up with its new 4K LCD, and better UV with nanoDLP. Well, it is a Wanhao D7 Plus but I have stripped out all the electrics bar the motor and end stop. See the kit list at the foot. All the mechanics are D7 Plus still.

I managed to calibrate my resin at various cure times and had some 30 ish successful prints. However, over the past week and with great frustration it has suddenly stopped working. The print is fine for the first 2mm, and then I start getting the telltale bang as the motor strains against something. The print is perfect up to that point, but it always stops at 2mm. I have tried forcing up and down as it is not clear in which direction the motor strains, but it makes no difference. It appears, not verified that it is turning but missing every few turns, so becomes out of sync in the process as it is # turns/pulses that it knows as its height.

The model might have been sticking to the fep, so checked that. There are no gummy bears so it is not sticking to it. The fep was a bit looser than normal, so could raise the lift height or change the fep. I chose the latter, but it made no difference.

It has been suggested that it is the vref on the skr/RAMPS and was directed at this https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M906.html but it all means nothing to me and not sure what I should enter for the Wanhao motor or my new 0.9 one? And why should it start to fail now, after about 30 successful prints? The build plate moves freely outside printing.

So I need your help, please: What do you think the issue is and how to fix, and do you think it is the vref and if so, does anyone know how to configure it, please? M906 something???

KIT LIST:
Existing Wanhao D7 1.8 motor, though changing that to NEMA 17 0.9' Step Angle Stepper motor (400/rev) 1703HSM168A - 50oz - 1.68A 5.5 4K 2160x3840 LCD Remove Backlight with glass protector LS055D1SX05(G)
64 pin 20cm Ribbon
4k HDMI board and MIPI Driver
Raspberry Pi 4B
SD Card - 32Gb
SD Card to USB reader
Meanwell LRS350-24 LED DRIVER, DC24V 350W
BIGTREETECH SKR Mini E3 V1.2 Control Board 32Bit with TMC2209 UART Driver 3D Printer Parts Cheetah for Creality Ender 3
Youmile LM2596S Dual USB Power Supply Module Step-Down Buck Adjustable 3A DC-DC Port 15 - 4
Kyrio DC USB Brushless Cooling Fan 5V 4010 3D Printer Fan 40mm x 40mm x 10mm x 2
WINSINN 60mm Fan 24V Brushless 6010 60x10mm - High Speed (Pack of 4Pcs)

bigfilsing · 2021-02-06 14:12:57

The first thing to do is some dry prints ( without resin) to find out if the problem is repeatable/consistent .
Determining that is a major step !

The nest step is to investigate whether you have the 2209 driver in stand alone mode or UART
Only if it's set UART mode (both on the driver and SKR board ) will it respond to M906 to set the current Otherwise it will need to be adjusted on the driver board via the adjust pot/screw

What and where did you get the firmware from for the SKR board from . If you have the source files you should be able to see in the config.h file if it is set to UART or standalone ( assuming you are using Marlin FW)
( youll need to know the firmware later anyway so you can set the steps suitable for the 0.9 stepper motor)

Are you 100% sure the Z axis lead screw and print head can operate smoothly ??

Exactly which SKR board do you have ??

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-06 14:15:33)

Jonners59 · 2021-02-06 15:31:38

bigfilsing wrote:

The first thing to do is some dry prints ( without resin) to find out if the problem is repeatable/consistent .
Determining that is a major step !

OK, a good call. It certainly repeats. Every print so far, but I guess this would eliminate it being anything to do with the resin and the activities around curing. I have other thoughts tof my own on cause and they focus more on the motor, fastener, thread and the supports/guides. MAYBE dirt, out of alignment, wear, not fastened enough... Dunno, but hard to get to without major surgery. Just seems so odd to just happen, moves freely when not printing, and turned by hand.

bigfilsing wrote:

The nest step is to investigate whether you have the 2209 driver in stand alone mode or UART
Only if it's set UART mode (both on the driver and SKR board ) will it respond to M906 to set the current Otherwise it will need to be adjusted on the driver board via the adjust pot/screw

That doesn't sound good. Don't really know where to look.

bigfilsing wrote:

What and where did you get the firmware from for the SKR board from .

It was given to me. TBH I would be lost without the hand-holding help of others. Would never have started this...

bigfilsing wrote:

If you have the source files you should be able to see in the config.h file if it is set to UART or standalone ( assuming you are using Marlin FW)
( youll need to know the firmware later anyway so you can set the steps suitable for the 0.9 stepper motor)

I must assume I do. I'll look to see if I have a copy of the SDCard and work on that. I am assuming that is where this will be.

bigfilsing wrote:

Are you 100% sure the Z axis lead screw and print head can operate smoothly ??

Well, they move vastly quieter and smoother than they did with the D7 stuff. When not printing and move the build plate up and down is large steps or tiny, it is very smooth, and when off and I turn the thread it moves end to end with no trouble, but it is a concern. How do I test each component, one at a time. I know I can roll the thread on glass or table to see if it is bent, same the guides, but other than that???

bigfilsing wrote:

Exactly which SKR board do you have ??

BIGTREETECH SKR Mini E3 V1.2 32Bit 3D Upgrade Silent Mainboard with TMC2209 UART Driver 3D Printer Parts Cheetah for Creality Ender 3 can be found on Amazon, where I got it from....

bigfilsing · 2021-02-07 01:41:16

Hi,
Well it doesn't sound like the mechanics as your none print moves seem to work but its still worth checking . Without a good mechanical system it will be extremely difficult to get good prints.

UART
Let me try and explain Previously with stepper driver boards all we had to configure was the motor amp setting by means of a screw on the stepper driver board. In the last couple of years some driver boards ( usually the ones with Trinamic stepper chips) allow remote amperage setting via UART ( which is a serial communication protocol) In order for UART to work the motherboard has to be configured to "activate" UART AND the stepper driver board has to be set to UART ( this is done with a solder link on the board )
Once set in either stand alone or UART mode you never have to touch it again But it is important to set it up correctly. Judging by the fact you have run many succesful prints previously i dont think this is the issue .
Example picture of the underside of a 2208 chip . You can see the 2 solder pads ( red box surrounding them ) are NOT connected so i know this board is in standalone mode. If they were connected it would be in UART mode
2208

It would be very useful if you could share some pics of your SKR board and your stepper driver board ( top and bottom)

What stepper driver chips will do is stall if there is a mechanical issue ( or they are set too low). They will cut power to the stepper motor briefly then reset and try again.

Simple test. Send the print head to its top position While its moving try and stop it with your hand . It should offer resistance before it stops . If you can stop (stall) it with very little effort then the stepper driver may need adjustment

Only when we are confident the mechanics are working correctly and the stepper current is set correctly can we move on to other potential causes.

Be patient ...its very satisfying when you get it to work
Jonners 59 were you born in 59 ??? I was !!!!!!!

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-07 01:47:29)

Jonners59 · 2021-02-07 14:43:05

bigfilsing wrote:

Hi,
Well it doesn't sound like the mechanics as your none print moves seem to work but its still worth checking . Without a good mechanical system it will be extremely difficult to get good prints.

Thanks bigfishing
Thanks for standing by me. I do have quite a logical mind, but I know I ask stupid questions and a general pain the proverbial, but I have an inquisitive mind and a strong will to do stuff, but, some aspects just go over my head or I feel the opposite and just don't want to know. TBH my main aim was only to print some small bits n bobs for models as my eyesight is starting to fail, but I have been trying to make the D7 do more after being persuaded to upgrade from my standard D7 plus, and that was in May and after spending about £1k. A waste of time and money.

I agree with the mechanics to a greater extent. Also because it has done so many prints in the past 4 weeks and moves top to bottom since about August, it doesn't strick me as a FW or cal issue as SW and FW tend to either work or not, not suddenly go wrong, whereas mechanical wear out, become loose, etc.

I have ALSO just run a print without the resin and it did all it should. I even tried to add force up and down as the build plate lifted and dropped just to make its life more difficult. It ran flawlessly.

bigfilsing wrote:

Hi,
UART
Let me try and explain Previously with stepper driver boards all we had to configure was the motor amp setting by means of a screw on the stepper driver board. In the last couple of years some driver boards ( usually the ones with Trinamic stepper chips) allow remote amperage setting via UART ( which is a serial communication protocol) In order for UART to work the motherboard has to be configured to "activate" UART AND the stepper driver board has to be set to UART ( this is done with a solder link on the board )
Once set in either stand alone or UART mode you never have to touch it again But it is important to set it up correctly. Judging by the fact you have run many succesful prints previously i dont think this is the issue .
Example picture of the underside of a 2208 chip . You can see the 2 solder pads ( red box surrounding them ) are NOT connected so i know this board is in standalone mode. If they were connected it would be in UART mode
https://ibb.co/3pT9jFc

Interesting. I get that, but couldn't put into practice, but do understand. And whilst I think it worth investigating, And yes, as above, I agree with you. It sounds odd it could be this. Will it be different when I change from my 1.8 to 0.9 motor? I had decided to use the opportunity to change them, so based on our chat I am delaying that. A step at a time and you are the expert, though as a Capricorn it pains me to say so. You are the boss, but only in this instance :-D

bigfilsing wrote:

It would be very useful if you could share some pics of your SKR board and your stepper driver board ( top and bottom)

Will do. Not just yet. Everything is falling apart and failing and nothing is fixing as it should so my list of things to do is growing. Been going downhill since this started to play up, from fences to PCs, to Tvs and Sky boxes!!! been a bad fortnight. :-D Just give me a little time. It also requires stripping the printer.

bigfilsing wrote:

What stepper driver chips will do is stall if there is a mechanical issue ( or they are set too low). They will cut power to the stepper motor briefly then reset and try again.
Simple test. Send the print head to its top position While its moving try and stop it with your hand . It should offer resistance before it stops . If you can stop (stall) it with very little effort then the stepper driver may need adjustment

Huh ha. Just tried that and when it was going down I lifted up the whole printer. It took the full weight. Down I used the weights for the kitchen scales (3lbs) which had zip effect and also found I needed considerable force on top and neither had any effect. It just kept going, and interestingly, the clicking didn't occur. There must be a huge force when the print fails and makes the noise!

bigfilsing wrote:

Only when we are confident the mechanics are working correctly and the stepper current is set correctly can we move on to other potential causes.

Yes, as above. I've bought into that, as long as I have a coach, a patient and understanding coach to help me through this. Life is too short to be ignoring the kids - started late see below - and spend my time frustrated and angry trying to work this thing out!

bigfilsing wrote:

Be patient ...its very satisfying when you get it to work

Yes, that is true. But I am frustrated having spent so much money and so much time and been letting the kids down, and the SWMBO, the latter is dangerous.

bigfilsing wrote:

Jonners 59 were you born in 59 ??? I was !!!!!!!

Me! huh ha, yes. I am an old git too. Born December 23 so only JUST. Also started married life late, so younglings to take care of.

And "bigfishing"... into carp or catfish or pike fishing??????

PS:
Had a suggestion to do this:
Output of putting M503 in RAMPS

echo:  G21    ; Units in mm (mm)
echo:  M149 C ; Units in Celsius

echo:; Filament settings: Disabled
echo:  M200 D1.75
echo:  M200 D0
echo:; Steps per unit:
echo: M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E93.00
echo:; Maximum feedrates (units/s):
echo:  M203 X500.00 Y500.00 Z5.00 E25.00
echo:; Maximum Acceleration (units/s2):
echo:  M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z100.00 E5000.00
echo:; Acceleration (units/s2): P R T
echo:  M204 P100.00 R100.00 T100.00
echo:; Advanced: B S T J
echo:  M205 B20000.00 S0.00 T0.00 J0.08
echo:; Home offset:
echo:  M206 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
echo:; Mesh Bed Leveling:
echo:  M420 S0 Z0.00
echo:; Material heatup parameters:
echo:  M145 S0 H185 B45 F255
echo:  M145 S1 H240 B110 F255
echo:; Stepper driver current:
echo:  M906 X580 Y580 Z580
echo:  M906 T0 E650

echo:; Hybrid Threshold:
echo:  M913 X100 Y100 Z12
echo:  M913 T0 E30

echo:; Driver stepping mode:
echo:  M569 S1 X Y Z
echo:  M569 S1 T0 E
echo:; Linear Advance:
echo:  M900 K0.00
echo:; Filament load/unload lengths:
echo:  M603 L350.00 U400.00
ok

I was told of FB forum to change the ampage "0.58A change to 0.85A", M906 Z580 to M906 Z850

So M503 now says:

Now M503 says - 11th line from bottom:

echo:  G21    ; Units in mm (mm)
echo:  M149 C ; Units in Celsius

echo:; Filament settings: Disabled
echo:  M200 D1.75
echo:  M200 D0
echo:; Steps per unit:
echo: M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E93.00
echo:; Maximum feedrates (units/s):
echo:  M203 X500.00 Y500.00 Z5.00 E25.00
echo:; Maximum Acceleration (units/s2):
echo:  M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z100.00 E5000.00
echo:; Acceleration (units/s2): P R T
echo:  M204 P100.00 R100.00 T100.00
echo:; Advanced: B S T J
echo:  M205 B20000.00 S0.00 T0.00 J0.08
echo:; Home offset:
echo:  M206 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
echo:; Mesh Bed Leveling:
echo:  M420 S0 Z0.00
echo:; Material heatup parameters:
echo:  M145 S0 H185 B45 F255
echo:  M145 S1 H240 B110 F255
echo:; Stepper driver current:
echo:  M906 X580 Y580 Z850
echo:  M906 T0 E650

echo:; Hybrid Threshold:
echo:  M913 X100 Y100 Z12
echo:  M913 T0 E30

echo:; Driver stepping mode:
echo:  M569 S1 X Y Z
echo:  M569 S1 T0 E
echo:; Linear Advance:
echo:  M900 K0.00
echo:; Filament load/unload lengths:
echo:  M603 L350.00 U400.00
ok

Why and how that was derived, no idea. It was the mentor who kicked me off and he likes to play on my vulnerabilities.

Last edited by Jonners59 (2021-02-07 17:59:50)

bigfilsing · 2021-02-07 18:19:11

Hi Jonners

August 4th so beat ya by a few months.
Bigfilsing (fil not fish :-) ) is an old gamer tag from the mid nineties . My names Phil , at 6ft3 and the wrong side of 100kg I'm Big and i live in Singapore = Bigfilsing . Born & lived in UK till 79 , then Holland till 95 and Singapore ever since.

I'm in no rush so take your time. It'll be worth it.

Interesting that the dry run went well The additional load of a wet run with resin is so minimal i think we can safely ignore it.
For info> Ramps was one of the very first 3D printer controllers and is often referred to, but in your case not applicable as your have an SKR mother board What i think you are referring to is "terminal" The generic name of the window for sending and receiving g code from your machine.
The listing you showed is what i would expect from a SKR board running Marlin and it does appear to have UART configured for the stepper drivers.
Knowing what we do now I'd inspect the stepper motor cable at both ends . These plugs tend to be the biggest cause of intermittent problems
I'm still intrigued that it consistently stopped at 2mm

A couple of photos of the mother board & stepper driver chip ( top and bottom) would be a good start in figuring out what set up have exactly
If you were given any FW or config files then sharing them would help me help you too.

Don't be afraid to ask questions !!

Cheers
PS The amperage required is very much dependent on what motor you have ( and its rating) pushing it too far will cause it to over heat and stall if your not careful
what you need to know is that unlike standard DC motors, steppers are always powered even when not moving !!! They need to be to hold a position If you do alter the amperage then make sure you can monitor the motor temp to make sure its not overheating !!
If you do manage to change the mA setting of the Z motor then be sure to send the M500 command afterwards so it is stored in eeprom or it will revert to the old value when you off & on the machine

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-07 18:29:03)

Jonners59 · 2021-02-08 11:01:44

bigfilsing wrote:

Hi Jonners
August 4th so beat ya by a few months.
Bigfilsing (fil not fish :-) ) is an old gamer tag from the mid nineties . My names Phil , at 6ft3 and the wrong side of 100kg I'm Big and i live in Singapore = Bigfilsing . Born & lived in UK till 79 , then Holland till 95 and Singapore ever since.
I'm in no rush so take your time. It'll be worth it.

My boys love gaming. Seem to spend all their time at it, especially the older one.

How exciting. As ex MCL/C&W from c86 to 2003, Hong Kong, Singapore were important Asia locations for me. Would have been open to taking a stint out there but met the SWMBO in 94 and that was a no go as she's Italian and wanted to be close to her mum, even if she was in the UK and her mother Italy.

Thank you for the offer and patience. Given my update below, which comes from me adding to the FB forum, a reply or two, I am at a loss as to "what next" to do. So have entered the M906 Z850 vref for my 1.8 motor as instructed. Do I test with resin or just accept it and save the mess and waste and just go into installing and setting up the 0.9 motor? And what other settings need changing and where???? Doing the motor swap now would be handy as I could kill two birds with one stone as I can take those photos. Not keen on opening her up now she is working unless to swap the motors over.

bigfilsing wrote:

Interesting that the dry run went well The additional load of a wet run with resin is so minimal i think we can safely ignore it.

Yeah, TBH I was not surprised, but a test worth doing and nice to try testing the torque and also see the printing image quality on the LCD.

bigfilsing wrote:

For info> Ramps was one of the very first 3D printer controllers and is often referred to, but in your case not applicable as your have an SKR mother board What i think you are referring to is "terminal" The generic name of the window for sending and receiving g code from your machine.

Yes, I had worked that out though everyone keeps confusing me as they keep referring to it in various ways and of course, nanoDLP calls it RAMPS still (I have told them it shouldn't) and it does NOT explain that it is cmds saved on the board. On the RAMPS page, it should state: "this is a terminal for the motherboard, previously called RAMPS, more often now skr and often running Merlin" or something like that and a link to the GCode page. I think the software has grown rapidly and with huge numbers of features for all types of printer and other uses but they need to stop, take stock and tidy it up, simplify it, take out duplication and or refer to inputs being duplicated everywhere. Fix missing info like scale in the calibration page, and also that if a change in RAMPS terminal then needs a change on the app page. and what Gcode it relates to.

bigfilsing wrote:

The listing you showed is what i would expect from a SKR board running Marlin and it does appear to have UART configured for the stepper drivers.
Knowing what we do now I'd inspect the stepper motor cable at both ends . These plugs tend to be the biggest cause of intermittent problems
I'm still intrigued that it consistently stopped at 2mm

Well that's good news. Thank you.
OK, back to pics again, but also do I swap the motors????
2mm: Yes me too. I was wondering if it is GCode. The reason I say it is that I had print fails due to the printer "freezing" mid print. nanoDLP admin suggested adding a wait time. EG:

Code After each Layer:
G1 Z{[[LayerPosition]]+[[ZLiftDistance]]} F{[[ZSpeed]]/5} P1 ; Lift to wait position
[[WaitForDoneMessage 50]]
G4 P1
[[WaitForDoneMessage 50]]

bigfilsing wrote:

A couple of photos of the mother board & stepper driver chip ( top and bottom) would be a good start in figuring out what set up have exactly
If you were given any FW or config files then sharing them would help me help you too.

See above:

bigfilsing wrote:

Don't be afraid to ask questions !!

I won't! :-) See above and here's another:

I have set the eSTEPS to Z400 and I believe that the 0.9 would be Z800?

and the vREF M906 would be shown as what?
NEMA17 Stepper Motors - 0.9° - 1703HSM168A - 50oz - 1.68A
=> M906 Z1680?

Are these correct?

bigfilsing wrote:

PS The amperage required is very much dependent on what motor you have ( and its rating) pushing it too far will cause it to over heat and stall if your not careful
what you need to know is that unlike standard DC motors, steppers are always powered even when not moving !!! They need to be to hold a position If you do alter the amperage then make sure you can monitor the motor temp to make sure its not overheating !!
If you do manage to change the mA setting of the Z motor then be sure to send the M500 command afterwards so it is stored in eeprom or it will revert to the old value when you off & on the machine

Thank you... Interesting! I did add the M906, but didn't do the "send the M500". I'll have to do that again, but with the save. Let me know about the above next steps and the Qs, please and I shall follow the advice.

Best
Jon

bigfilsing · 2021-02-08 17:37:42

Ok bit of history
Initially when people were using simple ramps boards they had to program time pauses to allow the motor to actually move to where they had told it . This wasted a lot of time because in order to get a machine working reliably you had to over estimate the time needed to be absolutely sure the movement was completed . Then one fine day somebody released a "hacked" version of the Marlin firmware that gave feed back that NanoDLP could actually understand and use ( you'll still see "wait for done message" called in the config)
As of Marlin 1.8 there was NanoDLP integration SO when compiling firmware all you had to do was Uncomment the NanoDLP function in the config files and all was good.
SO i can see that whatever firmware you have it already has this response functionality which is a good thing.

As for the new stepper motor installation That is of course up to you but id be tempted to stick with what you've got until we've figured out the problem.

As a general rule anytime you alter the firmware setting you must save them ( M500) or they will be forgotten at the next power OFF/ON cycle
Regardless of whether you've changed stepper current or esteps ( or anyother FW setting) you must always save it in the Eeprom M500

Stepper current When you have a motor that is rated for example 1.68 Amps it is always a good idea to only set the motor to 80% of is max rated current That way you're not pushing the motor too hard and will inevitably get a longer service life
Added to which the Z axis shouldn't need anymore than 1 amp max If it does need more then there's something mechanically wrong!!

The Z steps per mm is typically 400 but this depends on the lead screw you are using . Indeed if you change to a 0.9 deg stepper then you will have to double the steps to 800 in firmware.

Moving on ....If the machine now works reliably in dry runs and manual movements then we need to look at how you are trying to print There maybe a problem with your gcode
The first thing i would do is while printing look at the terminal feed back you're receiving You might be able to see something there when/if it goes wrong
I don't have my machine in front of me at the mo, but somewhere ( i think on the main page) there's a monitor function where you can see all commands that are sent and the machines feedback

It is still important to know whether the 2209 is in standalone mode or being controlled by UART . If it is in stand alone mode no amount of mA alteration in the firmware will change the motor current.
Hence me asking for photos of the mother board and 2209 ( front and back)

Cheers
Phil

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-11 02:01:33)

Jonners59 · 2021-02-09 11:17:19

Don't get this. SPent AGES compiling a reply to you yesterday and it isn't here!!!!!!!!! Start all over again. That is annoying.

bigfilsing wrote:

Ok bit of history
Initially when people were using simple ramps boards they had to program time pauses to allow the motor to actually move to where they had told it . This wasted a lot of time because in order to get a machine working reliably you had to over estimate the time need to be absolutely sure the movement was completed . Then one fine day somebody released a "hacked" version of the Marlin firmware that gave feed back that NanoDLP could actually understand and use ( you'll still see "what for done message" called in the config)
As of Marlin 1.8 there was NanoDLP integration SO when compiling firmware all you had to do was Uncomment the NanoDLP function in the config files and all was good.
SO i can see that whatever firmware you have it already has this response functionality which is a good thing.

That is interesting. A nice bit of background info, and also some good news for me. One tick in the box!

bigfilsing wrote:

As for the new stepper motor installation That is of course up to you but id be tempted to stick with what you've got until we've figured out the problem.

OK, but it means a delay in taking the photos. It's quite involved to take apart as it is 2 x D7 chassis, one on top of the other to get all the new kit in and the power supply bolted to the back. But I do get it. I'll run a test.

bigfilsing wrote:

As a general rule anytime you alter the firmware setting you must save them ( M500) or they will be forgottent at the next power OFF/ON cycle
Regardless of whether you've changed stepper current or esteps ( or anyother FW setting) you must always save it in the Eeprom

Yes, get that. DIdn't realise I had to M500 every time. Common sense really just didn't think.

bigfilsing wrote:

Stepper current When you have a motor that is rated for example 1.68 Amps it is always a good idea to only set the motor to 80% of is max rated current That way you're not pushing the motor too hard and will inevitably get a longer service life
Added to which the Z axis shouldn't need anymore than 1 amp max If it does need more then there's something mechanically wrong!!

Useful to know. Kinda sounds like setting the amperage is a bit hit and miss and not scientific. 80% of 1.68 is 1.344, but that's above 1amp. So how did you get to 0.85? What is the rationale for it? The figure I gave was given to me but I am questioning the source's thinking as it, in MHO, is guesswork, which may be what it is, but maybe not. Not that I am ungrateful for their help and experience, just the way things swing all over the pace back and forth. The documentation seems to say the max is 5A, but that I assume is just the capability, not the practical working range.

bigfilsing wrote:

The Z steps per mm is typically 400 but this depends on the lead screw you are using . Indeed if you change to a 0.9 deg stepper then you will have to double the steps to 800 in firmware.

Brilliant. Noted and thank you.

bigfilsing wrote:

Moving on ....If the machine now works reliably in dry runs and manual movements then we need to look at how you are trying to print There maybe a problem with your gcode
The first thing i would do is while printing look at the terminal feed back you're receiving You might be able to see something there when/if it goes wrong
I don't have my machine in front of me at the mo but somewhere ( i think on the main page) there's a monitor function where you can see all commands that are sent and the machines feedback

OK, I will try and do that but sitting watching it print is a pain in the proverbial. Wouldn't the logs give this? I took 2 lots. One, the first after I had finished the 1st failed print and the second straight after I started to hear the clicking noise as it started to fail... This is also why I liked the option to see the logs on the Home page, now removed.

What MAY be of interest and a source is that I had failed prints before, but then it was hanging. It just stopped printing and was waiting or something. Shahin, who has been a saviour to me for so much stepped in and said it was waiting for a reply and hadn't got it, so suggested I changed some GCode in some of the boxes. Namely this:
Code Before each Layer:
G1 Z[[LayerPosition]] F[[ZSpeed]] P1 ; Move to layer position
[[WaitForDoneMessage 10]]
G4 P1
[[WaitForDoneMessage 10]]

Code After each Layer:
G1 Z{[[LayerPosition]]+[[ZLiftDistance]]} F{[[ZSpeed]]/5} P1 ; Lift to wait position
[[WaitForDoneMessage 10]]
G4 P1
[[WaitForDoneMessage 10]]

It happened again and he had me raise these to 50 which is where it is now. Now part of me is wondering if this is similar. If it misses a beat it may be adding a layer and then being out of step in terms of height. Hence the build plate is trying to go below the actual height of the build and crushing itself. Hence the stress clicks./thumps and it stops at 2mm. It thinks it is somewhere else height wise as there is no actual external (uninfluenced by the build) means to measure real height. I hope this makes sense!

bigfilsing wrote:

It is still important to know whether the 2209 is in standalone mode or being controlled by UART . If it is in stand alone mode no amount of mA alteration in the firmware will change the motor current.
Hence me asking for photos of the mother board and 2209 ( front and back)

OK, but does this help at all for now...? These images of SKR

Lastly answers to understanding.
These are all the GCodes added via the RAMPS terminal on nanoDLP. What I am not is 100% certain what they do. Some we have discussed and happy with now (just showing the full suite) and others only partly. I may know what they are but do not know what they are doing. I.e. I note one fan (in the base of the box) does nothing and I think it is the only one connected to the SKR so maybe these settings are wrong. ANd what of temperature control. You mention above monitoring temp of the motor, but is anything?

M104 S0 Temp sensor?
M107 P1 Fan off Fan= #1. which I need to determine, but think it is the only one not moving
M106 S0 Fan on Speed=0, what does 0 mean? When does it turn on, at what temp?
M906 Z850 vref motor ampage. Done
M92 Z400 stepper motor eSteps. Done
M500 Save to SDCard. Done

GCodes in nanoDLP, are these good/correct or could they be better? They seem to work.

Start of Print Code
M107 P1
M106 S0
G90
G28 F400 P1
[[WaitForDoneMessage]]
G92 Z0
[[PositionSet 0]]
M17

Resume Print Code
G90 ; Put positioning in absolute mode
G92 Z[[CurrentPosition]] Y0 X0 ; System crashed so we need to recover current position from nanodlp and set it on RAMP
G1 Z[[LayerPosition]] ; Move to layer position

Print Stop Code:
M104 S0
M106 S0
G04 F30000
G90
G1 Z190 F300
M84

Manual Movement Code Template:
M104 S0
M106 S0
G04 F30000
G90
G1 Z190 F300
M84

Bootup Code
M107 P1
M106 S0

Shutter Open Code:
M104 S100 UV does seem to come on a second or two before the image appears on the LCD

Shutter Close Code:
M104 S0

OK, that's it for now. WIll run a test a tad later and revert.

Jon

bigfilsing · 2021-02-09 15:55:31

Ok now im confused ?? 2 chassis on top of each other ??

The thing you may want to consider with the upgrade to 0.9 stepper is >>> IF we take Zsteps/mm as 400 then the max resolution = 1 step and that is 1/400th of an mm 0.0025 as a layer height is already very fine . Will there be any actual practical benefit of doubling the steps ??

Jonners59 wrote:

Useful to know. Kinda sounds like setting the amperage is a bit hit and miss and not scientific. 80% of 1.68 is 1.344, but that's above 1amp. So how did you get to 0.85? What is the rationale for it? The figure I gave was given to me but I am questioning the source's thinking as it, in MHO, is guesswork, which may be what it is, but maybe not. Not that I am ungrateful for their help and experience, just the way things swing all over the pace back and forth. The documentation seems to say the max is 5A, but that I assume is just the capability, not the practical working range.

Ok Remember i said typically "no more than 80% of the rating" that not to say it has to be set to exactly 80% of the rating .
0.85 mA is just a generic starting point i use Not to high to overload smaller motors but enough to get movement under no load conditions.

So here ( and again i need pics in order to make a judgement call ) and no, generic pics and a schematic of the board isn't useful I need pics of your board ( so i can see how its configured ) and pics of the stepper driver daughter board ( top and bottom) to see how that configured . Last count their were over 30 types of 2209 driver boards I need to see yours , specifically !!!!!

Jonners59 wrote:

OK, I will try and do that but sitting watching it print is a pain in the proverbial. Wouldn't the logs give this? I took 2 lots. One, the first after I had finished the 1st failed print and the second straight after I started to hear the clicking noise as it started to fail... This is also why I liked the option to see the logs on the Home page, now removed.

The clicking noise could be something as simple as the print sticking to the FEP sheet and the motor not having enough torgue to pull it free !!!
Again i need to know your mother board set up and stepper driver setup 1st to we can check its set up properly Without the basics in place we will will go round in circles with what "it might be"

And changing settings ( i hope you wrote down the originals ) will have you chasing your tail

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-09 15:57:53)

bigfilsing · 2021-02-09 16:19:16

On subject of stepper current
IF using UART to communicate with the stepper driver chip we can alter that in firmware . BUT we must be sure the stepper driver daughter board and the mother board ( your SKR board) are configured to operate in UART mode AND the firmware is configured correctly
Here's a link to a good set up video that may be worth watching . This is for a 4 axis filament printer but the principles apply to you just on the Z axis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOJbSrW … achingTech
Here's the manual for the 2209 >> https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREET … ter/manual

If the stepper driver board and main board are NOT set up for UART then we need to set the current manually via the small cross head screw ( the screw is metal and the reference voltage can be measure here .
This is commonly known as " stand alone" mode.
We measure ( and adjust) a voltage that corresponds to the current being applied to the stepper motor.
There is often an equation applied ( different driver chips use different equations
On the 2209 as we can see in the manual the Vref voltage at 1.2 volts corresponds to a current of 0.9 amps ( 900 mA) This would be a good starting point

So once you have provided the requested pics we can determine how yours is set up and advise how to proceed
The pics are important because there are a few different types and by investigating your type and the solder pads on the back we can see what its set up to do.

Jonners59 · 2021-02-10 14:50:13

bigfilsing wrote:

Ok now im confused ?? 2 chassis on top of each other ??

Long story. In building this I hoped everything would fit inside the standard Wanhao D7 Plus, but when it started to lead to more and more HW, especially the power supply that became an impossibility. the guy who get me to take the leap and was telling me what to do had an old D7 he had dismantled, so I bought the base off him for £20 and fitted it on top of mine. So now I have a D7 with a big base, but still the power unit strapped to the back... It actually looks quite good even if it has a gaping hole at the front (screen)... photo of my baby

bigfilsing wrote:

The thing you may want to consider with the upgrade to 0.9 stepper is >>> IF we take Zsteps/mm as 400 then the max resolution = 1 step and that is 1/400th of an mm 0.0025 as a layer height is already very fine . Will there be any actual practical benefit of doubling the steps ??

For me, absolutely. That is not as fine as I'd like it. Model builders think realistic and accuracy, not a representation of. The things I make by hand are vastly finer or require vastly finer. I would like to get to 10um in all 3 x axis if I could. Hence the journey. I knew how it all worked and what I needed - the failings of the D7 Plus but not the knowledge and means how. I was led down the path and assured it would be easy and fine - 9 months later I kinda feel not so happy, but getting there now.

bigfilsing wrote:

All points above and not replied to are noted
he clicking noise could be something as simple as the print sticking to the FEP sheet and the motor not having enough torque to pull it free !!!

No, it isn't that noise. I know that one well. No this is a noise the D7 makes when it can't move. So it did it when stock if it went to the very top and "crashed" into the end and tried to go further, or the vat bottom when there was a gummy bear.

SO!!!!!!!!!! Good news the print was a success. So now, IF you are OK. I shall clean up and then strip the machine to add the new motor and send you those photos you so desire. I do not think the machine needs any other settings changed. Seems we have it. that said, please see below. I juts want to know they are OK and understand.

5 And my questions/Queries:

5.1 These are all the GCodes added via the RAMPS terminal on nanoDLP. What I am not is 100% certain of what they do. Some we have discussed and happy with now (just showing the full suite) and others only partly. I may know what they are but do not know what they are doing. I.e. I note one fan (in the base of the box) does nothing and I think it is the only one connected to the SKR so maybe these settings are wrong. ANd what of temperature control. You mention above monitoring temp of the motor, but is anything?

M104 S0 Temp sensor?
M107 P1 Fan off Fan= #1. which I need to determine, but think it is the only one not moving
M106 S0 Fan on Speed=0, what does 0 mean? When does it turn on, at what temp?
M906 Z850 vref motor ampage. Done
M92 Z400 stepper motor eSteps. Done
M500 Save to SDCard. Done

5.2 GCodes in nanoDLP, are these good/correct or could they be better? They seem to work.

Start of Print Code
M107 P1
M106 S0
G90
G28 F400 P1
[[WaitForDoneMessage]]
G92 Z0
[[PositionSet 0]]
M17

Resume Print Code
G90 ; Put positioning in absolute mode
G92 Z[[CurrentPosition]] Y0 X0 ; System crashed so we need to recover current position from nanodlp and set it on RAMP
G1 Z[[LayerPosition]] ; Move to layer position

Print Stop Code:
M104 S0
M106 S0
G04 F30000
G90
G1 Z190 F300
M84

Manual Movement Code Template:
M104 S0
M106 S0
G04 F30000
G90
G1 Z190 F300
M84

Bootup Code
M107 P1
M106 S0

Shutter Open Code:
M104 S100 UV does seem to come on a second or two before the image appears on the LCD

Shutter Close Code:
M104 S0

Jonners59 · 2021-02-10 23:57:55

Whilst waiting for a reply, I ran another test. This time of the wheel which is circa 70mm D. It failed with the same error. After about 6 hrs it had only lifted a few mm. The build plate was lifting and dropping but making the thumping noise both on the way up and down.

bigfilsing · 2021-02-11 03:25:02

Hi Jon
Interesting build .
Typically its a good idea to have the power supply external for cooling purposes . The UV LED already generates heat internally and the last thing we need "inside" is more heat. Heat will not only degrade your screen but also reduce the shelf life of resin.
I see you have 2 external card reader extensions. Why 2??
I did like seeing that the machine is in a baking tray with paper towels :-) While not unheard of, it is extremely rare to get a catastrophic FEP film failure.

These themselves are notoriously patchy for data transfer . Its doubtful this is your problem but..................just saying
I would recommend while trying to fault find you remove the front and back covers from the machine. It will function fine wit these removed as they don't contribute to the structural integrity of the machine. ( assuming the screws for the rest of the machine are tight)

History
The D7 like many other ( Elegoo) is based on the KLD LCD1260 , a Taiwanese machine that came out years ago and was copied by the Chinese when they came to market with the YHD 101 ( which i own)
The machine was never intended to have the PSU ( power supply unit) fitted internally ( heat as mentioned above)
I even have my Raspi3 mounted on the back for better WIFI reception.
Having the PSU ( or power brick as its often referred to) separate means easy change when /if they fail.

Gcode
A great reference for the meaning of Gcode is https://marlinfw.org/meta/gcode/
There you can find the meaning of all Gcode(s)
With DLP we only use a few which will make your life easier !
In general ( and I think but not sure on the D7) we use the "part cooling fan" output ( filament printers) to switch on the UV LED . This is often referred to as the shutter ( This comes from the first machines using a projector to create the image )
DLP printers use the part cooling fan output as it is controlled by PWM and on most control board ( inc your SKR) has a relatively hefty MOSFET so can provide the current the UV LED requires
M106 S0 = off
M106 S255 = on ( 255 being the max)
M106 S125 = 50% on ( we dont use this as we only want the UV LED on or off)
M107 = off
Normally all we need to use is M106 S255 for UVLED on and M107 for off
However you have some M104 Gcodes . In a filament printer this would be for the hotend ( which also has a MOSFET out put) and maybe in your case they have used it for the UVLED This confirmed by the Shutter Open Code: M104 S100 ( i think this should be S255. Think being the operative word !! They may have rigged the UVLED in such a way it need PWM control and 255 max output would blow it So be careful
This is another reason photos would help so we can trace what's connected to what on your SKR board.
We can do some simple tests when you have the machine running by typing in the commands at the terminal window
So to summarise
My best guess is that the UV LED is connected to what would "normally" be the hotend on an FDM printer
They have used the part cooling fan output (FDM printer) to control a fan maybe.

All the other Gcode you posted looks OK but may need some work later.
Its a good idea to put comments on your Gcode . Certainly when your learning
so after the gcode use a ";" to denote comments
Example
G28
would become
G28; home all axis
&
G90
would become
G90; set to absolute positioning
Side note >> G90 will only work after a G28 has been used previously as the machine can only determine an absolute position once it knows 0 (zero)

I'm very tempted to share my Gcode set up but until we have confirmed certain things it will only confuse matter

Get those covers off and get some pics :-)
Cheers
Phil

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-11 05:39:23)

bigfilsing · 2021-02-11 05:33:21

Jonners59 wrote:

For me, absolutely. That is not as fine as I'd like it. Model builders think realistic and accuracy, not a representation of. The things I make by hand are vastly finer or require vastly finer. I would like to get to 10um in all 3 x axis if I could. Hence the journey. I knew how it all worked and what I needed - the failings of the D7 Plus but not the knowledge and means how. I was led down the path and assured it would be easy and fine - 9 months later I kinda feel not so happy, but getting there now.

There's nothing wrong in aiming for max resolution i agree However 0.0025 ( 400steps) is already exceeding the max resolution of the resin and printer IMHO so increasing that to 800 steps doesn't make sense.
You must also consider your print time At 50um prints are already pretty slow !

If it were me i'd stick with the 1.8 stepper ( assuming its working properly) and sell the 0.9 to recoup some of your expense !
Also worth considering is that generally speaking 0.9 steppers have lower torque and holding capacity . Just saying !

Jonners59 · 2021-02-11 10:13:28

bigfilsing wrote:

There's nothing wrong in aiming for max resolution i agree However 0.0025 ( 400steps) is already exceeding the max resolution of the resin and printer IMHO so increasing that to 800 steps doesn't make sense.
You must also consider your print time At 50um prints are already pretty slow !
If it were me i'd stick with the 1.8 stepper ( assuming its working properly) and sell the 0.9 to recoup some of your expense !
Also worth considering is that generally speaking 0.9 steppers have lower torque and holding capacity . Just saying !

Well, I already have the motor. Been sitting here waiting to install for about 4 weeks. That said current quality isn't good enough and I know others get better. The whole point was to print things like these and these are large scale (1/24), I would want to go down MUCH lower, 1/72, 1/48, 1/32... are the common scales. So if I can ek more out then why not?

This is what I am trying to print now. Palmer Wheel Rim in 1/8 scale. Ideally would be down to 1/72 scale, but can hardly print this. Takes about 13hrs;
Palmer Wheel Rim

These two I need to print loads of. There are similar one can buy but they are wrong. 1/24 scale
Wire bracing small fork
Wire bracing large fork

bigfilsing wrote:

Interesting build .
Typically its a good idea to have the power supply external for cooling purposes . The UV LED already generates heat internally and the last thing we need "inside" is more heat. Heat will not only degrade your screen but also reduce the shelf life of resin.

Well it is outside and it has a huge hole in the front that I will probably cover when all is done. Was wondering is a small local control screen would be possible, so I can get it to be self-contained whenever. Watch the print, keep an eye on the dash and do settings or at least tell it to print something... A whim, not essential. Other priorities right now!

bigfilsing wrote:

I see you have 2 external card reader extensions. Why 2??
These themselves are notoriously patchy for data transfer . Its doubtful this is your problem but..................just saying
I would recommend while trying to fault find you remove the front and back covers from the machine. It will function fine wit these removed as they don't contribute to the structural integrity of the machine. ( assuming the screws for the rest of the machine are tight)

They are there as I was putting in and taking out the SDCards all the time and it is difficult to get to them, time-consuming and I feared doing damage. Ease of use wise they are great, BUT like you I am starting to wonder if they may be a root cause. Which will be a pain if removed. BUT if I take the sides off until fixed, maybe it will work. So sides off and data cables out.

bigfilsing wrote:

I did like seeing that the machine is in a baking tray with paper towels :-) While not unheard of, it is extremely rare to get a catastrophic FEP film failure.

It is so messy. It is as much the residual mess that necessitates it. Nothing actually cleans the resin away, so everything gets messy and sticky and yucky. I have the whole lot in a garden tray about 60x60, lined with paper. Then the 4 x trays, all lined with paper. The paper can be just thrown away and replaced. Job done. As clean as it can be.

bigfilsing wrote:

History
The D7 like many other ( Elegoo) is based on the KLD LCD1260 , a Taiwanese machine that came out years ago and was copied by the Chinese when they came to market with the YHD 101 ( which i own)
The machine was never intended to have the PSU ( power supply unit) fitted internally ( heat as mentioned above)
I even have my Raspi3 mounted on the back for better WIFI reception.
Having the PSU ( or power brick as its often referred to) separate means easy change when /if they fail.

As usual, interesting background. I use ethernet. WOuld be nice to force ethernet as I find sometimes it does not boot up and I need a restart.

bigfilsing wrote:

Gcode
A great reference for the meaning of Gcode is https://marlinfw.org/meta/gcode/
There you can find the meaning of all Gcode(s)
With DLP we only use a few which will make your life easier !
In general ( and I think but not sure on the D7) we use the "part cooling fan" output ( filament printers) to switch on the UV LED . This is often referred to as the shutter ( This comes from the first machines using a projector to create the image )
DLP printers use the part cooling fan output as it is controlled by PWM and on most control board ( inc your SKR) has a relatively hefty MOSFET so can provide the current the UV LED requires
M106 S0 = off
M106 S255 = on ( 255 being the max)
M106 S125 = 50% on ( we dont use this as we only want the UV LED on or off)
M107 = off
Normally all we need to use is M106 S255 for UVLED on and M107 for off
However you have some M104 Gcodes . In a filament printer this would be for the hotend ( which also has a MOSFET out put) and maybe in your case they have used it for the UVLED This confirmed by the Shutter Open Code: M104 S100 ( i think this should be S255. Think being the operative word !! They may have rigged the UVLED in such a way it need PWM control and 255 max output would blow it So be careful
This is another reason photos would help so we can trace what's connected to what on your SKR board.
We can do some simple tests when you have the machine running by typing in the commands at the terminal window
So to summarise
My best guess is that the UV LED is connected to what would "normally" be the hotend on an FDM printer
They have used the part cooling fan output (FDM printer) to control a fan maybe.

Again an interesting background. That link is good too, not that I would know about putting it into practice. I had another such link as I was trying to get answers as to what and why I was told to load the GCode to RAMPS terminal (SKR) and had no idea what they were trying to do. Now I have an idea but that raised Qs about the fan GCodes, esp as I think I have only the 1 connected to SKR and it is that one that does nothing, but will be important as it is key to clean airflow.

Also interesting is your comment about the UV, which is what kicked this all off. Was going to do ion the std D7, and just got it working when my "mentor" started driving me onwards. Anyway, I found it dimmer than the original D7 UV. The UV plugs into a driver board which in turn connects to the SKR. The driver board has a small voltage regulator which I found if I turned right up, vastly improved the brightness - it was that obvious you could see the difference between the D7 and the new. So, yes VERY interested in your GCode ideas and changes.

bigfilsing wrote:

All the other Gcode you posted looks OK but may need some work later.
Its a good idea to put comments on your Gcode . Certainly when your learning
so after the gcode use a ";" to denote comments
Example
G28
would become
G28; home all axis
&
G90
would become
G90; set to absolute positioning
Side note >> G90 will only work after a G28 has been used previously as the machine can only determine an absolute position once it knows 0 (zero)

I shall look forward to your steerage and suggestions. One big issue is knowing where the top is and NOT going past it. Get that grinding/thumping noise as it tries to go too high.

bigfilsing wrote:

I'm very tempted to share my Gcode set up but until we have confirmed certain things it will only confuse matter

Well, let's see what comes of what I have and what you think "IF" anything needs changing first. This is why I asked. It does or did work fine before, but it may be that it could be better and a couple of issues, like;
1. UV brightness and
2. when it turns on (seems to turn on about 1 sec before the LCD shows the image (I noted that during the dry test) which is a waste of time and UV life as well as I think it still has an effect on the resin semi curing it, and then the
3. top end stop, and
4. bottom fan......
All as mentioned above and before.

bigfilsing wrote:

Get those covers off and get some pics :-)

OK, up next. I am just going to clean the gummy bears and build plate after yesterdays failure to see if it still can do the test model. Just a quick 2 hrs run, and then I'll clean out the VAT and strip her down and take loads of nude photos of her for you

Jonners59 · 2021-02-11 10:34:40

OK, just started the print = 2hrs. Then I'll strip her down.

bigfilsing · 2021-02-11 14:55:29

All good.
Ill await the pics
Be sure to take some of the LED driver board too ( or post a link to its vendor)
Background
An LED is essentially a diode and as such will pass as much current as it can. An LED driver is basically a power supply with fixed or adjustable current regulation and /or voltage regulation.
The point being the LED driver has to match or be adjusted to suit the UV LED ( single or array)
This is the same for all LED's not just the UV ones
Be careful adjusting the voltage ( it may have been the current . Ill know when i see pics of it) you can easily overdrive the UV LED and blow it up !!!!!

bigfilsing · 2021-02-12 02:20:00

TIp. To degrease ( and deresin) things use Aceton . But be careful some plastics dont play well with Aceton .Always a good idea to test on a small area first
Old fasioned nail polish remover is mostly aceton !!

Jonners59 · 2021-02-12 18:10:11

bigfilsing wrote:

TIp. To degrease ( and deresin) things use Aceton . But be careful some plastics dont play well with Aceton .Always a good idea to test on a small area first
Old fasioned nail polish remover is mostly aceton !!

Shall try that out. I use IPA, but found Ethynol far better, so have both, the former for cleaning tables etc.

OK, so have done the best I can. I am concerned about taking it apart in case something gets damaged and also the difficulty getting it all back, but have semi stripped her and taken photos. Alos done a simplistic schematic and SKR outputs.

I would like to fit the new motor whilst she is stripped off, which I shall do after you have come back to me. To fit it I may have to take the top off which will disturb the LCD etc which I am trying to avoid, at £80 plus a pop and 4 weeks plus wait.

Everything is in here

Let me know if you want anything else. I suspect the fan in the base isn't working because I have not sent it an instruction to. I think my entry was for only one fan port, which actually operates two fans, left and right in the chassis. The other 3 just run either directly off the power supply or via one of the USB board, which in turn is directly off the power supply.

All yours TTFN

bigfilsing · 2021-02-13 02:43:38

Well that's a lot of good info .

Meanwell power supply . This is one of the better, if not the best power supply ( PSU...Power Supply Unit) you could have . Good news

Stepper drivers
I have now realized that the SKR board you have has onboard fixed stepper chips as apposed to replaceable daughterboard drivers. This negates the whole "stand alone" or UART mode I've been waffling about in previous posts
The only down side to "onboard" is that if you ever blow the chip or it fails you'll have to replace the whole board. So be careful. NEVER unplug or plug in the stepper motor ( board end or motor end) while the board is powered up !!!!
The good news is the board uses UART to control the chip and you will be able to adjust the current with Gcode !

SKR connections
Thanks for providing the schematic . The guy who built this certainly likes his fans eh :-) IMHO they are not all needed and id be happy to explain this later but for now lets focus on getting your machine working
Your UV LED is indeed connected to ( what is normally on an FDM printer) the heated bed out put Hence the odd commands in your Gcode set up. M104 S100 for on and M104 S0 for off. In principle there nothing wrong with this ( although i think the S100 should be S255 for full on)
Explanation. The main outputs on 3D printer controllers are PWM controlled MOSFETs ( in case you dont know a MOSFET is a software controllable switch) that can not only do ON/OFF but also regulate in the 0 - 255 range ( 100 being 2/5ths or 40% ) I have no idea why S100 would be used and it doesn't sound right to me.
The LED driver will be expecting the full 24volts.
I think they are using the heated bed output as it has a bigger MOSFET , more suited to the LED driver power requirement.
Typically we use what is normally the "hotend fan output" ( M106 & M107 control) but in the case of this board that has a small MOSFET on that output
To test ( and report back) if you have a multi meter .>> Disconnect the UV LED driver. Switch on the machine and in NanoDLP go to the terminal Type M104 S100 (& send) and measure the voltage . Then type M104 S255 and measure the voltage again.
When this is test is complete we can update your Gcode settings accordingly.

LED brightness
As you said you have adjusted this but beware of over driving the LED . Turn it down to where it was . IF you don't remember turn it on with Gcode and adjust the brightness to where its bright but not glaringly bright.
Obviously the brighter the better from a cure time perspective BUT too much and will run hot and not last very long !! SO be prepared for slightly longer cure times but extending the life of the UVLED array.
When in doubt setting it lower rather than higher is better !!
The cooling fins on the bottom of the LED array are a good indicator too They shouldn't , under normal operation, get much more than 50 degC
Anymore and you'll need a fan on the fins to get max performance from the array.

General
The set up and wiring are pretty straight forward . Your life is being made difficult by the amount of fans the previous owner installed

bigfilsing · 2021-02-13 03:09:31

After further scrutiny of the pics what worries me is this >>
The main power to the SKR board. Normally there would be plus and minus on the 2 terminals but i only see one wire ( blue of the left) !!

Theres a blue and red wire that comes under the board . The blue goe to the left terminal . Where does the red go ????

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-13 03:18:18)

Jonners59 · 2021-02-13 10:19:24

1.

bigfilsing wrote:

Well that's a lot of good info .

Thank you. AM glad it is helping. I thought the more and better the detail the better for both. Plus I have been keeping records.

2.

bigfilsing wrote:

Meanwell power supply . This is one of the better, if not the best power supply ( PSU...Power Supply Unit) you could have . Good news

YEAH another cool win. Happy bunnies are her today!!! :-D :-)

3.

bigfilsing wrote:

Stepper drivers
I have now realized that the SKR board you have has onboard fixed stepper chips as apposed to replaceable daughterboard drivers. This negates the whole "stand alone" or UART mode I've been waffling about in previous posts
The only down side to "onboard" is that if you ever blow the chip or it fails you'll have to replace the whole board. So be careful. NEVER unplug or plug in the stepper motor ( board end or motor end) while the board is powered up !!!!
The good news is the board uses UART to control the chip and you will be able to adjust the current with Gcode !

Another win. WOrth the £30 then. I ALWAYS fully power down before taking apart anyway and hence why I am not too keen on stripping her again. I want the new motor in and her clothes back on ASAP! If you are happy for me to proceed I will fit the new motor now before I run the UV voltage tests.

4.

bigfilsing wrote:

SKR connections
Thanks for providing the schematic . The guy who built this certainly likes his fans eh :-) IMHO they are not all needed and id be happy to explain this later but for now lets focus on getting your machine working
Your UV LED is indeed connected to ( what is normally on an FDM printer) the heated bed out put Hence the odd commands in your Gcode set up. M104 S100 for on and M104 S0 for off. In principle there nothing wrong with this ( although i think the S100 should be S255 for full on)
Explanation. The main outputs on 3D printer controllers are PWM controlled MOSFETs ( in case you dont know a MOSFET is a software controllable switch) that can not only do ON/OFF but also regulate in the 0 - 255 range ( 100 being 2/5ths or 40% ) I have no idea why S100 would be used and it doesn't sound right to me.

Well, I have been meaning to do it for an age to keep a visual record. I have all else documented. And I also thought that the more you had the easier things shall be. I am keeping, as you can see a record and notes. Maybe others may want to follow so this could help them. Nice to save others the pain. As per penultimate point, I am that guy, and the reason is below. Given the power of the power unit, it has little to zero effect on the workings and it will hopefully keep the printer cooler and safer. But I'll leave that for now.

That makes a lot of sense, and it also explains why the UV, even to my naked eye looked dimmer than the very small (size and output) of my standard Wanhao D7 UV. SDo I agree it PROBABLY should be M104 S255, and MAYBE adjust the output control on the little driver board if needed.

5.

bigfilsing wrote:

The LED driver will be expecting the full 24volts.
I think they are using the heated bed output as it has a bigger MOSFET , more suited to the LED driver power requirement.
Typically we use what is normally the "hotend fan output" ( M106 & M107 control) but in the case of this board that has a small MOSFET on that output
To test ( and report back) if you have a multi meter .>> Disconnect the UV LED driver. Switch on the machine and in NanoDLP go to the terminal Type M104 S100 (& send) and measure the voltage . Then type M104 S255 and measure the voltage again.
When this is test is complete we can update your Gcode settings accordingly.

Will try. Not in the most ideal location.

6.

bigfilsing wrote:

LED brightness
As you said you have adjusted this but beware of over driving the LED . Turn it down to where it was . IF you don't remember turn it on with Gcode and adjust the brightness to where its bright but not glaringly bright.
Obviously the brighter the better from a cure time perspective BUT too much and will run hot and not last very long !! SO be prepared for slightly longer cure times but extending the life of the UVLED array.
When in doubt setting it lower rather than higher is better !!
The cooling fins on the bottom of the LED array are a good indicator too They shouldn't , under normal operation, get much more than 50 degC
Anymore and you'll need a fan on the fins to get max performance from the array.

Well it seems from the above that fixing that will increase brightness and does make a lot of sense. I turned it up from about mid way to about 75%, so can turn it back after points 4 and 5 above.

7.

bigfilsing wrote:

General
The set up and wiring are pretty straight forward . Your life is being made difficult by the amount of fans the previous owner installed

Outstanding. BRILLIANT.

PS: I am the only owner. A tad of history. I owned a D7 Plus which has 3 x fans. Two rear sides and one in the base (replaced as they are 12v and this is 24v). I knew all the things needed to make it improve image detail and just dreamed of it until I saw a vastly better UV on eBay. The seller guaranteed to help me fit it as I had no idea what to do. Once bought they didn't send it and ignored me. After eBay intervened they sent it just in time to be outside my guarantees. I did contest via PayPal and got my monies back (£129). Someone on FB offered to show me what to do, but somehow I figured it out before they intervened. He also sent me an STL (a friend printed for me) of a UV mount which had the two fan holes to keep the LCD cool(er). It had no mounting, so I merged it with the very simple STL mount I had created that did (I took off the side walls mine had) and hence 3 became 5 fans. At least I could resolve one item on the wish list, a better UV. With the aid and guidance of my FB advisor, messing about with the D7 HW and blowing up the controller, I upgraded everything with his steerage, but that required more space, especially as the new UV, heat sink and shroud took up so much space. So I thought a simple solution would be to get another D7 base and fit the two together. The guy helping had a spare and sold it to me. That was a D7 (not Plus) and so also had 1 x fan at the rear left, so 3 became 5 became 6. I am happy to have them all connected even if 3 are not controlled by the SKR as they increase airflow, ensuring it is kept cool (look after my LCD), and also act as a fail-safe for each other should one stop. Rare but does happen.

8.

bigfilsing wrote:

After further scrutiny of the pics what worries me is this >>
The main power to the SKR board. Normally there would be plus and minus on the 2 terminals but i only see one wire ( blue of the left) !!
https://i.ibb.co/gJKsBKc/power-in.jpg
Theres a blue and red wire that comes under the board . The blue goe to the left terminal . Where does the red go ????

Huh ha, don't worry, the other cable (black) is there, but it comes indirectly underneath and does not show up on the photo. The SKR wouldn't turn on otherwise. When I first installed everything I thought only one of the input pairs was required. Immediately wired them both, so that all works fine. And the tape hides soldered joints.

OK, for you to read and me to crack on. Voltage!

Thank you.

Last edited by Jonners59 (2021-02-13 11:05:51)

Jonners59 · 2021-02-13 11:32:22

5h17, f@~*k. damn, BLAST!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly the reason why I didn't want to try taking it apart. LCD broke. The small ribbon cable that comes off the LCD and connects it to the small MIPI board is so short. A stump actually and so is difficult to get to it and is VERY easily broken or torn off. I keep asking the manufacturers to make it longer or provide extensions, but they never do. That's another £80 wasted! Fortunately, I have another spare, but I'll also need to order another.

Right. I have done the test.
M104 S100 = 24.44v
M104 S0 = -0.939v
M104 S255 = 24.44v

And I repeat the tests many times and all give the same reading.

Right. Given all inside is fine, I shall now swap the two motors around and close up. No more accidents. Spent FAR too much as it is, 90% on LCD screens and HDMI boards.

Any objections?

Last edited by Jonners59 (2021-02-13 11:35:37)

bigfilsing · 2021-02-13 11:39:31

Ok so alongside the voltage tests , now we (I) need figure out what you've got connected to the regulated ( M106 / M107) output

1/ Fit the new motor (and updated the Esteps accordingly)
2/ Disconnect the wire from the SKR to the UVLED driver ( at the driver end if its easier to get to) Then send M104 S100 and measure the voltage on the wired going to the Driver or the output terminals of the SKR
3/ Then send M104 S255 and measure again
4/ Then M104 S0 to power off that output
5/ Then type M106 S255 and see what comes on ( if anything) I suspect a fan ! Also trace where it is connected on the SKR please. From what I've read some say Fan0 is controlled by PWM while some say it the normal FDM part cooling fan output Not sure hence the switch on and tell me what it does. This is firmware dependent and as you only have the HEX upload i cant read the config so we can just test and see whats what,

Coming up Machine settings/gcode clean up. You also have to keep in mind that the resin profiles each have their own specific Gcode !!!! but well get to that later

Good luck

Last edited by bigfilsing (2021-02-13 11:42:24)

nanoDLP

#1 2021-02-06 11:42:31

Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#2 2021-02-06 14:12:57

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#3 2021-02-06 15:31:38

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#4 2021-02-07 01:41:16

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#5 2021-02-07 14:43:05

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#6 2021-02-07 18:19:11

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#7 2021-02-08 11:01:44

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#8 2021-02-08 17:37:42

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#9 2021-02-09 11:17:19

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#10 2021-02-09 15:55:31

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#11 2021-02-09 16:19:16

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#12 2021-02-10 14:50:13

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#13 2021-02-10 23:57:55

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#14 2021-02-11 03:25:02

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#15 2021-02-11 05:33:21

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#16 2021-02-11 10:13:28

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#17 2021-02-11 10:34:40

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#18 2021-02-11 14:55:29

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#19 2021-02-12 02:20:00

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#20 2021-02-12 18:10:11

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#21 2021-02-13 02:43:38

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#22 2021-02-13 03:09:31

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#23 2021-02-13 10:19:24

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#24 2021-02-13 11:32:22

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

#25 2021-02-13 11:39:31

Re: Prints suddenly stopped working at 2mm Why and is it vref or somethin?

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